Ämne: 360 LSD?

[Ivan141]

Hello,

My name is Ivan, I'm a dutch guy with a 360 that I use for trackdays. Last sunday I was
driving the car on Zandvoort circuit for the first time this year, and it turns out there are a few problems with rear traction in some corner transitions. We use Koni red shocks all around, and lowered front suspention (cut 1 coil, soon to be replaced with springs from dutch v360cup)...riding on semislicks.
I've heard that volvo fitted 360's with an optional LSD in sweden and switzerland,
are there any of those LSD's still around? We are fitting the car with a intercooled B21 ET + megasquirt this summer and coul really use an lsd to keep the car going at corner exits. It would also be fun to be able to drift the 360 ( got directed to this site by Kristian with the ae86).
If you guys could help me out with some information I would be very gratefull.

Kind regards,

Ivan

[Nemesis]

Have not heared about factory fitted LSD for the 360. I know there is some modified 240 LSD mounted on race 360 here i Sweden. One have been on sale on this forum...

[Ivan141]

It's pretty sure that there have been some rare versions with LSD fitted, they are probably not very common. They even have a little note about it in the 360 cup rules stating it's not allowed to use on of those LSD's. Do you have more info on the 240 diff? What would I need to adjust to fit one of those?

[Mefistofeles]

Here som pictures off the modded 240 diff (4.88) and the rearaxel

[Ivan141]

Would you mind telling me what has been changed on this diff? I can imagine that the ring and pinion must have been switched over to the 360 housing, but otherwise?
BTW, would you still be able to reach decent top speeds with a 4.88 end reduction (final ratio)? The 360 has 3.44 stock I think.

[Mefistofeles]

Hello.

Its not my diff on the picture. Its a old  member how had made it from a 240 4.88 diff. I think its orginal diff but have som few changes.

You need to make room for it in the diffhouse. Its not going to fit becaouse the bult´s. You can see on the picture how he made the diff to fit the 300 diff house. See how tight its going to be, the bults scraches the diffhouse wall after the work on the diff. But it works. He drives rally with this setup.

[FREJ]

Would you mind telling me what has been changed on this diff? I can imagine that the ring and pinion must have been switched over to the 360 housing, but otherwise?
BTW, would you still be able to reach decent top speeds with a 4.88 end reduction (final ratio)? The 360 has 3.44 stock I think.

No you are not going to reach decent top speed.. depending on what you mean with decent.. on my stock Volvo 360 GL with B200F and max rpm ~6100rpm the car would top about 163km/h at redline.. close to 100mph  

But you can ofcourse go for another final ratio.. dont know what that 4.88 is coming frome.. maybe from rallying.

This case with modding the original housing of differential is one way to go.. another way is to take a hole differential with housing from a Volvo 240 and take away the shafts.. (dont know what they is called in english) and the "tubes" that the shafts goes in out to the wheels

then bolt on the shafts from the Volvo 360 and modificate the connection to the gearbox and make new connections to the body..

[Ivan141]

Ah, thanx for the input guys.
I dont feel anything for modifying volvo 240 axles, that isnt even a transaxle is it?
If the number of splines (teeth) on the axle input shafts (into sides of diff) is the same on this 240 diff as it is on the 360 diff then it is more convenient to just modify the housing (instead of the bolts, which might not even come off again judging from the picture). It looks like there is more than enough metal that can be taken off.

I need to get myself a spare 340 1.4 diff (3.88 ratio) to play around with. It would be interesting to measure the diff up and see how it compares to my AE86 LSD's. I think I might weld an open diff just for drifting fun if I can find a cheap one. Wrecking yards around here can get very unreasonable with prices lately (70 euro's for a diff from a car worth 200 euro's in reasonable condition over here).

Are there enough of these 240 LSD's around in sweden? I was told by some guys rallying a 740 that the clutch type LSD was very rare.

[FREJ]

You are so welcome, 3-series brother  

No the 240 axle is a "stiff" one, not a transaxle

About the housing mod it seems to me also that it is possible to take away some material in walls instead of bolts..

I dont think the LSD's for 240/740:s is so rare.. every 740 Turbo uses it I think.. or is that the locking type of diff? that locks up to a specified speed and then works just like a differential..

Anyway they make LSD's for new here but the pricing maybe is a bit higher than finding a used one..

[FREJ]

Here is my only picture of the modified 240 LSD that was modified to fit a Volvo 360 that was used in Rallycross here in Sweden.

[JTbo]

I have bought LSD for my 360, that should be that rare Volvo 360 version.

Here is some pictures from it:
http://www.janiervast.com/kuvat/lsd/

I have also Megasquirt installed and K-cam, but else pretty much like stock setup, still I need to get that LSD installed because I do have problems on track now

I just don't know how to install one and I have not yet found anyone that can or knows what tools or parts is needed to get LSD in.

After I posted message I started looking once again these parts in my pictures, then I realized that one is LSD and other is stock part, so all I need to do is take out that stock part from differential and install this LSD part in. Also pics in this thread helped a lot

[FREJ]

Hello JTbo! Welcome to 300power Club!

Did you bought the LSD new?

[JTbo]

Hello JTbo! Welcome to 300power Club!

Did you bought the LSD new?

It was used one, there is 11.87 stamped to below of text 'HOR'. My guess is that HOR is manufacturer and 11.87 is date.

However LSD is redone at some date, new gears and internal parts, what ever those would be

I have seen 2 of these LSD sets available in Finland, one was which I bought and I'm not sure who got 2nd. When talking to people it sounds like there might not be very many in whole country.

Sorry, I'm not yet guru with cars, but I'm learning everyday, that is why I installed megasquirt and converted my car from carb to fuel injection, I wanted to learn it

I was on track yesterday and again I found out why I need that LSD to get installed, only one wheel spinning wild on corners
From my homepage you can see videos and other stuff
http://www.janiervast.com sorry from ugly front page

[FREJ]

Okey! After some searching on the net I found something that is called "HOR Technologies" that have made Cams for Audi and some other things but not more info about the Company and the LSD:s for Volvo 360  

Is it a LSD with friction plates+discs in it that you can replace when they get worn? And is it adjustable so that the torque of the lsd is adjustable?

Here I found a site with lots of good info about the open diff, lsd, locking diff and so on..
http://www.houseofthud.com/differentials.htm

And if you click "Limited Slip Differentials - A Semi Technical Description" at that site you found a guide how to fit a lsd in or how to remake it with new slipplates..

[JTbo]

Okey! After some searching on the net I found something that is called "HOR Technologies" that have made Cams for Audi and some other things but not more info about the Company and the LSD:s for Volvo 360  

Is it a LSD with friction plates+discs in it that you can replace when they get worn? And is it adjustable so that the torque of the lsd is adjustable?

Here I found a site with lots of good info about the open diff, lsd, locking diff and so on..
http://www.houseofthud.com/differentials.htm

And if you click "Limited Slip Differentials - A Semi Technical Description" at that site you found a guide how to fit a lsd in or how to remake it with new slipplates..

I think that it has clutch plates, but I think that it can be adjusted only by changing parts and those can be hard to find.
I don't know much else than it should be some kind of LSD, even seller did not know any better from it.

Actually I have never seen what is inside of that part, good link now I know bit more how it works

I think that I will get that lsd soon installed with my friend, I just need to buy proper oil first and some seals for drive shafts as differential is leaking a bit.

[FREJ]

Looking forward to your report from the first testride later  

You are the first one on this forum that have (or know about) a LSD that is made orginally for the Volvo 300-serie!!

Good luck with the replacement of the stock boring open diff!

[JTbo]

I have put some new photos to http://www.janiervast.com/kuvat/lsd/

Maybe they reveal more secrets from that lsd

[FREJ]

Nice! But still can't se anything that tells me that it is a LSD..

And where is the other sidegear?

Maybe the Volvo LSD is limited on one gear? Not both like the one described in the webpage I wrote before..

Have never opened a Volvo 300 diferential  

[JTbo]

Nice! But still can't se anything that tells me that it is a LSD..

And where is the other sidegear?

Maybe the Volvo LSD is limited on one gear? Not both like the one described in the webpage I wrote before..

Have never opened a Volvo 300 diferential  

http://www.janiervast.com/kuvat/lsd/differential.jpg
Look part number 7, that is reqular open differential gears and gear case, now this part that I have replaces that stock part.

These gears in this LSD unti don't move with hand powers, but that stock part that is open differential, there I can easily rotate gears.
I think that lsd clutch and plates are inside of that black lid that you can see in those lsd pictures, there is around 3cm space for them.

As you can see from above link that other sidegear is in that big gear plate side, it attachs to hub, that has bores, with bolt  (245nm power needed for it) that goes trough hub,  and that hub attachs to driveshaft with 6 10mm bolts.

Could be that it is not very strong part, but other driveline parts in 300-series are not too strong either, when comparing to 200-serie

Bit hard to explane as I have never opened any differential and also english is not my best language

Edit:some mistakes removed

Edit2: Oh yes, this LSD unit that I have contains parts 2 and 7 from that picture
Please feel free to ask more if you have questions, I try to answer  as well as I can.

[FREJ]

Thanks for explaining!

This really is a RARE part you have there.. very nice  , for you  

[Fuse]

I am not sure but I might have some kind of LSD too.. I noticed it at the last winter. I didn't get the car to wheelspin just on one wheel, both wheels spinned always. Same thing on gravel it always leaves two lines and compared to my fathers 360GL Turbo the diffrence is huge. When you floor it on slippery surface with GL it just starts to wheelspin on one wheel and it's difficult to get the car moving but with my GLT I get wheelspin but with both wheels and despite the wheelspin the car moves and it starts to push the rear end to the side. With GL it just spins the one wheel and stays put. Also when I lifted the rear end up and spinned hard one wheel with my hands, both wheels turned and there was this clicking noise. Could be wrong though but the diffrence between these cars is so huge that I think the GLT might have some kind of LSD. GL has open differential for sure.

[FREJ]

I am not sure but I might have some kind of LSD too.. I noticed it at the last winter. I didn't get the car to wheelspin just on one wheel, both wheels spinned always. Same thing on gravel it always leaves two lines and compared to my fathers 360GL Turbo the diffrence is huge. When you floor it on slippery surface with GL it just starts to wheelspin on one wheel and it's difficult to get the car moving but with my GLT I get wheelspin but with both wheels and despite the wheelspin the car moves and it starts to push the rear end to the side. With GL it just spins the one wheel and stays put. Also when I lifted the rear end up and spinned hard one wheel with my hands, both wheels turned and there was this clicking noise. Could be wrong though but the diffrence between these cars is so huge that I think the GLT might have some kind of LSD. GL has open differential for sure.

Interesting! What happends if you put one wheel on gravel and one on tarmac and does a full rpm hard start?

[JTbo]

Interesting! What happends if you put one wheel on gravel and one on tarmac and does a full rpm hard start?

My guess is loud crunch and car won't move anymore

Sounds like LSD for me too, specially if both wheels did turn into same direction when you tested it.

[FREJ]

[Sounds like LSD for me too, specially if both wheels did turn into same direction when you tested it.

Yes, maybe he wont need/should be doing the hard start test  

[JTbo]

In 300mania there is now also some information from LSD's in 300-serie, check out Bilbo's pictures.
http://www.volvo300mania.com/forum-uk/volvo-340-360-f1140.htm

Hehe, now these two forums are crosslinked to each other

[FREJ]

In 300mania there is now also some information from LSD's in 300-serie, check out Bilbo's pictures.
http://www.volvo300mania.com/forum-uk/volvo-340-360-f1140.htm

Hehe, now these two forums are crosslinked to each other

Has Bilbo LSD and Powerlock that fits in the 300-serie differential?
As yours do?

[JTbo]

Yes, at least that is what I read from 300mania forum, there was one more picture somewhere on that forum, it had same looking lsd unti as I do. It was in a box and there was some gears and parts still attached to it.

Here it is:
http://www.volvo300mania.com/forum-uk/volvo-340-360-f1176.htm

Those pics makes things bit more clear, at least for me

Edit:Lot of typos and loose sentences  

[carlt]

HI
Mate of mine is trying to upgrade his 360 trials car diff before fitting the 2.5 motor he's building [based around boat crank and rods]
he breaks diffs every other event with a standard 2.0l motor !!
Iv'e been reading the posts about modding the DANA 30 diff into the 360 casing , [ on here and 300 mania , voc forum ] Very interesting stuff .
It's very similar to what we do with a Ford Transit Diff into Ford English Axle[escort etc]for ford english axled trials cars
Looks very promising , ONE problem which doesn't seem to have been adressed on this mod [please put me right ! ] is that the gearbox shaft on the 360 fits inside the pinion [which is hollow and splined ] on the 240 etc from which the DANA would be sourced are the pinions not flanged to the prop and solid ?
The pics of the modded casing and diff on  showes the pinion as solid , how does it fit to the gearbox shaft ?
Any pics of the front end of the casing showing the coupling ?
Cheers
Carl

[fille]

det går alltså ner en 240 diff i 300 huset om man slipar lite? Måste man byta pinjong med eller är de samma? är de nå mer man behöver göra än att slipa så att 240 difen får plats?

mvh // Fille

[FREJ]

det går alltså ner en 240 diff i 300 huset om man slipar lite? Måste man byta pinjong med eller är de samma? är de nå mer man behöver göra än att slipa så att 240 difen får plats?

mvh // Fille

Som du kan läsa i inlägget på engelska ovan så är 360-pinjongen ihålig och invändigt splinesad en bra bit in. 240:s pinjong är inte sådan vill jag minnas.. den jag har från min 245 turbo är bara gängad i änden, utvändigt.

[fille]

ni får ursäkta min dåliga engelsa kunskap

 vad menar du frej?
måste man byta pinjongen med eller går de å köra med orginal 360?

 

[FREJ]

vad menar du frej?
måste man byta pinjongen med eller går de å köra med orginal 360?

Jag menar att man MÅSTE ha en pinjong från en 360 för att den ska passa på 360:ns växellådas utgående axel som sticks djupt in i själva pinjongen när man sätter ihop dem! Men om den passar i nåt annat hus än 360:ns diffhus det vet jag däremot inte. Men bygger man in en diff från annan bilmodell i 360:ns diffhus så borde det funka.

[fille]

oki ska försöka få tag på en 240 bromsad diff då å maserra in ui orginalhuset.